Political philosopher Joy James speaks with Lucius Outlaw, a philosopher concerned with matters of social and political life. Together with Zora J Murff and Terence Washington, they inform and discuss Murff’s artistic examination of the overarching structures that shape Black Americans’ desires and aspirations for the things that only appear to be liberatory. This subject matter is further explored in Murff’s forthcoming MASS MoCA exhibition RACE/HUSTLE, curated by Terence Washington, Curatorial Exchange Initiative Fellow.